Voices for Voices®

From Mar-a-Lago to Advocacy: Virginia Giuffre's Battle Against Powerful Predators (Ep. 305)

• Founder of Voices for Voices®, Justin Alan Hayes • Season 4 • Episode 305

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From Mar-a-Lago to Advocacy: Virginia Giuffre's Battle Against Powerful Predators (Ep. 305)

Virginia Giuffre's voice fell silent this year when she died by suicide at 41, but her courage in confronting some of the world's most powerful predators continues to echo through our collective conscience. What drives a trafficking survivor to step out of the shadows and into the unforgiving glare of public scrutiny? What price do they pay for that bravery?

At just 17, Virginia was working as a spa attendant at Mar-a-Lago when Ghislaine Maxwell approached her, noticing the massage therapy book she was reading. That seemingly innocent encounter led to years of abuse at the hands of Jeffrey Epstein and Maxwell, who, according to Virginia's powerful courtroom statement, "opened the door to hell." Three years after that statement was read during Maxwell's sentencing hearing, Virginia took her own life, leaving behind three children, a husband, and a legacy of advocacy that deserves to be remembered.

The connections between Virginia's story and current events run deep and troubling. Recent subpoenas issued to the Clintons remind us of former President Bill Clinton's alleged multiple visits to Epstein's island and photographs showing Virginia with him. These aren't conspiracy theories but documented facts in the public domain that raise profound questions about power, accountability, and who we choose to believe.

What makes Virginia's story particularly striking is her transformation from victim to advocate. Through her organization SOAR (Speak Out, Act, Reclaim), she fought to create pathways to healing for other survivors, using a blue butterfly as a symbol of transformation. Her courage in pursuing legal action against not just Epstein and Maxwell but also Prince Andrew demonstrates the extraordinary resilience of the human spirit in the face of trauma that, in her words, "still has a corrosive impact to this day."

The mental health toll of speaking truth to power cannot be overstated. When survivors step forward, they relive their trauma repeatedly, often facing skepticism, character assassination, and the crushing weight of systemic barriers to justice. We must ask ourselves: How can we better support those who speak out? How can we ensure their bravery isn't punished with isolation and despair?

Join us in honoring Virginia's memory by continuing her work. Listen to survivors. Believe them. Stand with them. Visit VoicesForVoices.org/podcast to hear more stories that need to be told. What will you do to ensure no voice is silenced?

Chapter Markers

0:00 Introduction to Virginia Giuffre's Story

10:42 Clintons Subpoenaed: The Epstein Connection

18:10 Virginia's Statement Against Maxwell

28:53 The Price of Speaking Out

38:57 Mental Health and Trauma's Lasting Impact

48:25 Finding Purpose Through Pain

#VirginiaGiuffre #MarALago #JeffreyEpstein #Ghislaine Maxwell #billclinton #Advocacy #SurvivorStories #JusticeForSurvivors #PowerfulPredators #SexualAssaultAwareness #MeTooMovement #FightForJustice #VictimSupport #SocialChange #LegalBattles #EmpowermentThroughAdvocacy #TruthAndHealing #HumanRights #justiceforsurvivors #justice4survivors #VoicesforVoices #VoicesforVoicesPodcast #JustinAlanHayes #JustinHayes #help3billion #TikTok #Instagram #truth #factoverfictionmatters #transparency #VoiceForChange #HealingTogether #VoicesForVoices305

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Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Hey everyone, it's Justin here with Voices for Voices. Thank you so much for joining us on this powerful episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast. Thank you for being with us. If this is your first show, welcome. If you've been with us from the beginning and all the way to where we're at now, over 300 episodes later, welcome, and thank you so much for your love and your support of being there for us, watching, listening, sharing Just thank you. If you can give us a big thumbs up like follow share, subscribe All those are free and they all help us. Thumbs up like follow, share, subscribe if I'm missing something. All those are free and they all help us. Voices for Voices expand our audience in helping 3 billion people over the course of my lifetime and beyond, and so today is a very powerful episode.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

We're going to be memorializing an individual who got caught up with Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein and the like. But first I wanted to tie in some current events to what has occurred recently, because I think it's very important to have that information as we continue with this episode and that is so breaking. Last week depending on what time you watch and listen to this James Comer put together subpoenas for the Clintons. So that includes the former president, bill Clinton, hillary Clinton, james Comey, merrick Garland and more, and you're probably wondering, okay, what's this have to do with what we're going to be talking about? Well, it's very uh, widely known and publicized. We're not given any information that isn't already out in the public domain. What we are doing is we are sharing it for reach, reach and for survivors and anybody who may be themselves caught up in something and maybe not sure, or maybe you know somebody that may be in a vulnerable position and that you may be able to help. So how do these subpoenas that have been sent out? We're going to focus on the Clintons and we're going to focus on past President Bill Clinton. According to current President, donald J Trump, over 20 times he was there.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

There were at least one photo that was released that showed former President Bill Clinton at an airport near Epstein Island Island and he was just sitting in one of the chairs. Anybody's ever traveled air travel yeah, there's chairs galore, you know as you wait for your flight and that and so he was sitting there and he was looked like getting a massage, like his shoulders. So that's public domain. That isn't anything that is breaking news that's not been put out in the public domain and it's been out there for quite a bit of time. So just wanted to share that first, as we continue, because sometimes we get feedback that you know that we're conspiracy theorists. Associated with that, among others, is a public safety, public health concern, whereas we don't want to see others caught up and getting involved in one way or another, and so that's why we're putting this show together. And I just want to also mention something. So, yeah, the shirt I have on has Ultros here as a brand. We're not promoting Ultros as a brand, it just is on the shirt that I am wearing today. So there's no endorsement, there's no sponsorship from them, and I wanted to share that as well.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

So we're going to be talking the trafficking victim who decided to come out and share her story and she is the individual that is in that photo, at least one with President Clinton and wanted to share that as well. As there is also a yeah, yeah, so it's crazy. So we're going to get into it, we're going to get into the fact, we're going to get into what ultimately happened was Virginia in her last name is, uh, I I apologize if I miss misstated and and don't don't say correctly, uh, virginia giffrey, so that is g-i-U-F-F-R-E, and so she. The memorialization of this show is for her, because she died by suicide at her home in near Gabby, western Australia, on April 25th 2025, almost three years after the statement which we're going to read was read in court. And this was also the day where Ghislaine Maxwell was sentenced to 20 years and fined $750,000 for sex trafficking, conspiracy to sex traffic and transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual abuse.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

And Virginia, virginia Giffrey. She was 17 years old when she met Delaine Maxwell and I want to thank One Mom's Battle, tina Swithin, for bringing this even more out to light. Check out One Mom's Battle on Facebook. We had Tina as a guest on one of our earlier episodes, so go ahead and check that out. Great, great interviews, and I believe we did that.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

We cut two episodes, so that's where we're getting into. So we want to bring things front and center right. So we have Clintons getting subpoenaed about the Russia hope with him and Virginia, who was 17 at the time, and that's where we're going to really get started here, and what I'm going to do is really just go into her statement, and so we're going to be quoting Virginia Giffrey I guess, if you want to be super technical, virginia Louise Giffrey Roberts, because she was married at the time of her passing and so let's get into her statement. Then we'll get into a little bit of her background and then we're just going to go from there. So quote 22 years ago, in the summer of 2000, you spotted me referring to Ghislaine Maxwell. You spotted me at Mar-a-Lago, and so we've also heard comments from President Donald J Trump that Virginia worked at Mar-a-Lago in the spa, and that he felt that Mr Jeffrey Epstein was stealing workers from the spa, from his Mar-a-Lago resort, his spa there.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Back to the statement from Virginia. You chose me Again. The you is referring to Glenn Maxwell. You chose me and procured me for Epstein. Just hours later, you and he abused me for the first time Together. You damaged me mentally. Here we go.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

So, as, which tends to happen, I begin a segment and then the segment kind of turns into you know, we have these facts here that we're sharing here, and so I am scrolling back into where I left off, and as we do this, we don't condone any actions by Mr Epstein, by Ghislaine Maxwell or anybody who has ulterior motives for having wanted to take advantage of human beings or animals, because sometimes we see that does occur too. And, as we're continuing to get back to where we were statement-wise from Virginia, it's important from a mental health standpoint because when events and things happen, you might not be able to see that on the outside. Some things you may be able to see some injuries but others we may not, and that brings it inside to our mind and from may not, and that brings it inside to our mind and you know, from uh, uh, trauma or a recovery, a dream, right, trying to get some sleep and having, uh, you know, kind of these recurring thoughts and and, uh, you know, nightmares that are associated with whatever event or events occurred. That can be very draining mentally and have us in a somewhat constant state of depression and being down and feeling like what's? You know, we're questioning our lives, like what are we doing here? You know, wish something was different, I could have handled something differently and I wasn't in the space and time or area in time that I could have affected this a little bit differently. But from a mental health standpoint, where us as humans, and really anybody, it's very it's difficult to go through and rehash, rethink. You know these particular events because they don't, they don't just go away and I think that's one thing that can't be stated enough where, uh, we'll just forget about it or just go for a walk or just take a deep breath. Well, yeah, those are some coping mechanisms. Uh, we'll give you that. Uh. But when we're talking about trauma, really in general, some of it, it's very hard to. You can't just let it go, you can try to, and that's what kind of comes up here. You know, kind of comes up here. But as we reach this point, I have just got back to this statement. So here we are. Okay, just going to start it all over, just because we had a little bit of an interlude there. So thanks for sticking with us.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

So again, virginia Louise Giffrey Roberts she passed away by suicide, seen in a photo many years ago, with ex-president Bill Clinton giving him what looks like a massage in the near Epstein Island in Virginia made these statements 22 years ago. They were quoting and again, one mom's battle. Tina Swithin, check that out, check her page out. Huge advocate, please do that. And again, we had her on an earlier show. So Virginia says in quote 22 years ago, in the summer of 2000,.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

You spotted me at Mar-a-Lago and you made a choice you chose to follow me and procure me for Epstein, referring to Jeffrey Epstein. Just hours later, you and he abused me together for the first time. Together, you damaged me physically, mentally, sexually and emotionally. Together, you did unthinkable things that still have a corrosive impact on me to this day. I want to be clear about one thing Without question Jeffrey Epstein was a terrible pedo. Fill in the blank, but I never would have met Jeffrey Epstein if not for you Virginia's referring to Ghislaine Maxwell, following Virginia's statement for me and for so many others, you opened the door to hell and then Ghislaine, like a wolf in sheep's clothing, you used your femininity to betray us and you led us all through it.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

When you did that, you changed the course of our lives forever. You joked that you were like a new mother to us as a woman. I think you understood the damage that you were causing, the price you were making us victims pay. You could have put an end to the rapes, the molestation, the sickening manipulation that you arranged, witnessed and even said pardon. You could have called the authorities and reported that you were part of something awful.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

I was young and naive when we met, but you knew that, in fact, you were counting on it. My life as a young person was just beginning beginning. You robbed me of that by exploiting my hopes and ambitions. Ghislaine, the pain you have caused me is almost indescribable Because of your choices and the world you brought me into.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

I don't sleep. Remember what I was referring to? Nightmares wake me at all hours. In those dreams, I relive the awful things that you and others did to me and the things that you forced me to do. Those memories will never go away. I have trouble meeting new people without questioning if somehow they're going to hurt me too. There is not a day that doesn't go by that I don't ask why. Why did you enjoy hurting us so much? I worry every single day and night that you will get away with it and evade being punished. I will worry about that until you're brought to justice. And what should that justice look like? Goliath, you deserve to spend the rest of your life in prison, in a jail cell, trapped in a cage forever, just like you trapped your victims.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

So that statement was made by Virginia Louise Jeffrey Roberts, and she died by suicide at the age of 41 at her home in near Gabby, western Australia, on April 25th 2025, which was almost three years after this statement we just read was read in court, the day Ghislaine Maxwell was sentenced to 20 years and fined $750,000 for sex trafficking, conspiracy to sex traffic and transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual abuse. Intent to engage in criminal sexual abuse. And, as stated, virginia was 17 when she met Maxwell, and so this is a survivor. She has tragically passed by suicide, but her story needs to live on because she's a survivor and she chose to come and step out of, out of the shadows and talk about things that others, it sounds like, were also victims of and are victims of, uh, and so we constantly get asked why do you cover this?

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Why do you cover this? What is it about human trafficking? Number one again, it's a public safety, public health concern. When people are taking from their families their loved ones against their will and are forced to do sexual things. There could be labor traffic for their work, or both, or a combination sold to this person, then that person, then another person, and then flown on a plane to this country and that country, and so that's why we're putting this episode together, is.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

We want to show that. Uh, number one, you can step out of the shadows, you can talk about it as hard as it is. Uh, I know, with my trauma and the things that I went through and some of them were my fault and some weren't I'm willing to own up the things that I I did that were not on the up and up, but, on the other hand as well, there's things that I didn't do to myself. That occurred, and so that also needs to be thought about. So the fact that Virginia had that statement read in court, that Ghislaine Maxwell was the day she was sentenced the interesting part is, well, number one as I mentioned, former President Bill Clinton went to Epstein Island over 20 times. It was pictured with Virginia. So there's that, and so that ties into the current news, the other current news that the Clintons and others have been subpoenaed for their potential alleged involvement in the Russia hoax, and so all this kind of ties together, and that's one of the reasons why we're connecting the dots, because we feel it's so important.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Now Virginia also died by suicide, which there's some questions around that. She's coming out, she's talking, she's sharing, she wants to help others, and it is so unfortunate that that occurred. It's just so unfortunate and survivors, and anybody, anybody that's gone through any type of stressful environment, stressful time, been bullied or left out of the crowd and, and whatever that may be, you have a voice. Whether you're able to speak like this, with the spoken words, you're watching, listening, whether it's sign language interpretation, some people write, and so that's their way of sharing their voice is by writing, and that could be a novelplays, music, singing or playing instruments. It's also a way of sharing the voice. There's so many ways that we're all able to share our voice in one way or another. Some may come across as louder than others, like my voice might come across a little bit louder and music might come around a little louder than you know the written word on the page of a novel, pages of novels, stories, novellas, etc. But we all have a voice, and so that's that's another reason why we're putting this episode together.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

We want to highlight a survivor who stepped out from the shadows and shared her story, and we want that to continue to live on, because that's what. That's what virginia, that's what she. She deserves to have this continue to carry on. You know her background that she was married. Uh, she was born august 9th 1983, so she's two years younger than I am, and she was born in Sacramento, california, and she passed away by suicide, again on April 25th 2025 at the age of 41. I'm 43. She was 41. It's just, oh just, terrible, her citizenship. So she had dual citizenship with Australia and United States.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

She put together an organization called SOAR Again, so she was using her voice, and soar stands for speak out, act, reclaim, so s-o-a-r. The s stands for speak, the o stands for out, the a stands for act and the R stands for reclaim, and this was formerly known as victims refuse silence, and clearly Virginia is known for advocating justice for sex trafficking survivors. Not only was she a spouse to Robert Giffrey, she had three children Just oh my gosh, just unthinkable and so she was an advocate. So she endured some of what I can't even imagine what she had to endure. We talked through her statement and it's hard, but yeah. So this is how Virginia is connected to Jeffrey Epstein, to Ghislaine Maxwell, as that statement was read in court. That we read was also in the fold, not just with his visits to Epstein Island over 20 times, according to the current president, donald J Trump, but there's a photo of Virginia and former president Bill Clinton in that airport and he said he had a neck massage, and so that's what was going on there. Just an absolute shame. So Virginia pursued criminal and civil actions against Epstein and Maxwell and then she definitely stepped out and appealed really directly to the public. So that's what I'm talking about public concern, public safety concern. When people are being injured and hurt allegedly mentally, physically, spiritually, just oh my gosh, I just can't think. So he was stepping out for the public, for justice and awareness.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

The documents from court were unsealed from an earlier civil suit by Giffrey against Maxwell and they were released to the public August 9th of 2019, further implicating Maxwell Epstein and a number of their associates. So these documents get released, dating Maxwell Epstein and the number of their associates. So these documents get released. And then the following day, what happens? Jeffrey Epstein was found not alive in his Manhattan prison cell, and there was also another interview that aired on December 2nd of 2019 for the BBC Panorama, where Giffrey described her experience of being in sex traffic by Epstein to Prince Andrew, which helped shift the public opinion against the prince, and she subsequently sued the prince in civil court in New York. It was settled. Prince Andrew paid an undisclosed amount in making a substantial donation to her charity and Giffrey died at the age of 41 in April of 2025. So just a few months ago.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

So we talk about this information, we talk about the facts, we talk about the connections, of names of people, of alleged crimes and abuse, and we're bringing this to the public because, number one, it's public information. So Wikipedia, court documents, they have that information and so that's one of the big things. Right, we want to protect everybody, we want to protect the general public, we want to protect our families, yeah, and so when? Just as far as how things got started, I want to be clear.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

In the mid-2000s, giffrey met Delaine Maxwell when she was working as a spa attendant at President Donald J Trump's private Mar-a-Lago club. While reading a book about massage therapy, maxwell approached Giffrey, noted the book that she was reading, inquired about her interest in Masad and offered her a potential job working for Epstein as a traveling masseuse, with the assurance that no experience was necessary. Giffrey is quoted to say they, epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, seemed like nice people, so I trusted them and I told them I'd had a really hard life Up until then. I'd been a runaway, I'd been sexually abused, physically abused, that was the worst thing I could have told them, because they then knew how vulnerable she was. Yeah, it's just a very, it is just a hard, hard thing, hard thing to really wrap your arms around.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

And the decision to speak out publicly and to start an organization again called SOAR speak out, act, reclaim, and they use a blue butterfly as a symbol of transformation and empowerment for the survivors of sexual abuse. So she decided to step out publicly. And that's hard to do anyways, just about anything. And that's hard to do anyways, just about anything Could be about a sports team Like oh, what's going on? Why did they trade this player? Why didn't they sign this player?

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

You know, speaking out publicly on any medium, I mean, there's so many podcasts, so many shows, so many ways, especially with TikTok and others out there where you know we pick up our phones and we can put something together. And it's hard, I know from the mental health side, it's hard for me to write my mental health memoir Prescription for Living the House of you. It was hard to come to the realization that that was something that I wanted to do, that I wanted to put my name to. I just had no idea how and what would occur when people read it or hear about it From experience. It's hard. It's a little bit easier now because we've done over 300 episodes, but it's still hard.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Whether we're in the, in the studio, or whether we're filming on location or at home or wherever it's, it's still hard because the mental side things get inside our heads and then you know we only have, let's say, right, we have a. We have a hundred percent right, so we have a. Let's say, right, we have a, we have 100% right, so we have, let's say, a pie, and the pie is 100%. And if we have like 30% of that pie, it's tied up with past, trauma, past, abuse, past, whatever. That percentage is not room in our brain where we can do other things more productive, more healthy, and so by talking by well you know, therapy, medication, combination, coping mechanisms there's so many ideas out there and what I just want to say is you've got to find what works for you. You know what works for the author or what worked or what seems to work for the author doesn't mean it's going to work for you. So I'm told constantly that I should just be fine now because, well you know, you should be able to do all the things and trauma, and that shouldn't affect you because, well, you made it through.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

I made it through some of the hardest times for me, but I didn't make it through everything. There's still things that come up that I try to block out, try to use my coping mechanisms to get through. There's days where I am depressed beyond belief, where that whole you're questioning like is what I'm doing making a difference? Am I helping people? And that's the goal. Why else are we here to just work, make money and then die? Why else are we here? Why to just work, make money and then die? I mean, I forgot pay taxes. That's all sitting there, you know. Is that all what it's about? Is that all life is about when I'm at now? I don't. I believe I'm here for a reason, that I'm still here for a reason.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

I totaled my car, falling asleep in my 20s Actually, I might not even have been 20, but not 19 or so but totaled the car, fell asleep, was up too late on a trip and then decided to go do something else. And then it was late and I was really tired and totaled my car. I made it, I was alive, I made the decision to take 32 colon and cough pills, ended up in the hospital, could have died from that. Somehow I made it through. I don't know how it had to be. God, I mean, yeah, we have our bodies and we have processes where they try to repair and get bad things out of the body and all that. But there's got to be more than that. And things out of the body and all that, but there's got to be more than that. And with Virginia having her organization SOAR, with me having the organization Voices for Voices, I just think that part of what I'm meant to do and meant to be doing on Earth for my days, that I'm here but it's left. You know, virginia passed when she was 41. I'm older than that by a couple years.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

And so we start to really, as we talk about these stories and people go, oh, these are conspiracy theories and whatnot. No, these are facts. These are in the public domain. I'm not saying anything that's private, that's been sealed. This is all information that's out there. All we're doing is bringing it to light again. We're putting it out in the public domain so that we can potentially help at least one person through some form of trauma experience, feel empowered, inspired to do something that they wanted to do, that you wanted to do and felt that you couldn't or you're ashamed of yourself. I feel ashamed of myself many days, many days, and so we look at shows and podcasts. Shows and podcasts, those are the times where we I don't want to say look our best, because it's not always the times we look our best or sound our best it just comes across that you're okay, you're healed, you're whatever. And maybe on that day, maybe at that instant, like right now, like at this instant, I'm able to talk and share.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

And so, given a memorial episode to somebody who endured, through public documents and confirmation, some very awful events that their lives weren't lived in vain. They weren't. And so we want Virginia, her children, her husband and everybody across the world that hears or listens to this message. We want to share her life and some of the hardest things anybody should have to. Nobody should have to endure what she endured and what a lot of people have and continue.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

And again, that's something we don't want and we think that by just sharing a story like Virginia's, where she didn't have to speak out, she could have just remained in the shadows, but just remained out of the public eye. She didn't have to talk, she didn't have to share, she didn't have to start an organization, she didn't have to speak publicly on BBC, she didn't have to have that statement read in court when Clayton Maxwell was being sentenced, and so that's kind of where I look at like well, I don't have to talk about it, I don't have to share about it. That's the easy thing to do is just to let it be. But I don't think. I don't think that that is healthy in this instance and we've had multiple episodes talking about different, different things and different people and different levels of society. And bring it back to former president Bill Clinton.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

I remember going to during his presidential run. I remember going with my family to one of his campaign stops locally at the Akron the Goodyear hangar where they have the blintz at. I don't remember how old I was, but I remember going to it, and I don't think how old I was, but I remember going to it and I don't think I was old enough to vote at that time. So I'm not here to judge people. I'm not here to judge former President Bill Clinton. I'm not here to judge Glenn Virginia and others. Elaine Virginia and others are just here to speak the truth in good faith and share information that quite possibly could help somebody not want to take their life, or want to start a band, or want to write a memoir, a book, a pamphlet, maybe want to write a song, maybe act in a play or whatever that may be. The sky's the limit.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Another part why I'm doing this episode is I want people to, I want people to to dream, to dream, to dream. And for me it was so hard during my lowest, and there's still times that happens, where I'm afraid to go to bed, I'm afraid to go to sleep at night. I don't know where that comes from, comes from, but it happens. And at my lowest I remember a lot of people saying well, you, just, you know, try meditating. And that, well, for somebody who felt and still feels time to time that you know, afraid to close my eyes, is it gonna be the last time I'm gonna close my eyes? Is it going to be the last time I'm going to close my eyes? Am I going to wake up in the morning? I mean, we all kind of don't, we don't know, no matter who we are, and so I sometimes stay up later than I should. I don't go to bed at the time than I should. I don't go to bed you know at the time that I should Because I have like a little bit of that subconscious fear and that's why I had it at my lowest and for all those years into my 30s.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

To give a very vivid example, the big thing for me that happened was when I would close my eyes and if you're following a meditation or whether you're trying to just meditate or just think of go to your happy place, go somewhere where you feel comfortable in your mind. Well, when I closed my eyes, I didn't want to close my eyes because I didn't know if I would wake up. And then, on top of that, when I would close my eyes and I would try to calm my mind down and think about happy place, where that's going for a walk on the beach, whatever that is. Well, every time I would do that, there would always be a shark. It would come and be coming, whether it at a dock, with my feet over the edge, a shark would come and bite my legs. And so then that would shake me and I would wake up and go oh my gosh.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

And so when people talk about, well, you just need to do this and do that. Well, I didn't pick the shark, I didn't know. I don't know how that even came about, but it did and it's true. And so we need to just be kinder to ourselves, to others, because we don't know what they're going through. We don't know. And Virginia was so brave and her legacy is going to live on that. She was somebody that was taking situations and events and wanted to help people all the way up to her last day.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

So when I talk about, well, what are we here for? What are humans here for on earth? Yeah, oh, to accumulate all these, you know things, whether it's cars or yachts, or airplanes, or homes, or musical instruments or technology. I don't know. Is that what we're here for? Is it? I don't believe it is. I don't believe that that's all we're supposed to do, like the rat race of well, here's what we do, here's what we've always done and this is just the way it is, and so we got to do it that way.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

And if we don't, and you're not succeeding, and you're not doing this and that and the other, then you're failing. I don't believe I'm failing. There's days I feel like it, but as a whole, I don't feel like I'm failing. I feel like I'm helping. I feel like it, but as a whole, I don't feel like I'm feeling. I feel like I'm helping. I feel like our organization's helping. I feel like our guests are helping. The topics, the information we share and talk about, are helping. There's a cancer survivor that they reached out. I'm not going to name them or who they are or where exactly they're from, but while we do what we do, and when we got feedback that this individual came across Voices for Voices, our TV show and podcast, and I don't know what episode it was or what episodes they were that they watched or listened to, but something struck a chord with them, and now Voices for Voices is something that she or he I'm not giving information out that helps them or empowers them, and so that's one way. Another way is a post that we put out just the other day actually, and the post is from one of our guests.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Quote I feel heard my profession is so often misunderstood and your questions and presence made me feel like you get it. Thank you so much. Voices for Voices guest. And so I call that the why, like. Why are we doing this? Why are we. That's one of the reasons why. And so for us to impact a guest, that's it's so awesome. It's hard to put words together. I mean that's kind of the hope that we're helping in one way or another, and so that's so. I mean it gives me. It gives me goosebumps. It gives me goosebumps thinking about that, like wow, like this is a real thing. This isn't just a figment of my imagination, of our imagination. So thanks for sticking with us for this show as well as all the other shows.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

Again, I believe this is episode 305 or 306. It depends on when we get this all processed from an after-production standpoint thing I do want to share. You may have seen our social media posts, not only that statement, that comment from a past guest on our show that I just read. You'll also see, as we're getting lots of questions on, I don't want to download Spotify or iHeart or, and that's okay. And so, while we do have options, if you do listen on Spotify or iHeart or the other many, many other audio platforms you know Apple Podcasts or any other one or whether you watch on YouTube or Rumble, that you're still able to without an app, no matter where you're at, as long as you have access to the internet, there is. I'm going to read this verbatim from a recent post of ours that addresses whether, well, I don't have this app and I don't want to. Things just don't match up. Everybody does things a little bit differently and that's okay and this is why we were addressing this. Should have addressed it a while back, but it's one of those things. Well, we we're addressing it now and that is so.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

I'm going to again quote the post, and that is from us, voices for Voices, on our social media platforms and it says did you know you can check out all 300-plus episodes of our show with no app required? So you don't have to have an app to watch us, to listen to us, just to listen to us. If you go to voicesforvoicesorg forward slash podcast, you can listen to every single episode, old episodes, most recent. They're there and I'm going to try to get this where hopefully it's able with this way this background situation goes. Let me okay, let me try that way. So you should see wwwvoices4 and the 4 is spelled out F-O-R. Voicesorg forward slash podcast. So that is wwwVoices4Voicesorg forward slash podcast forward slash podcast, and you can get the Voices for Voices podcast no app required. So share that with your friends, family, colleagues on your social media platforms, yourselves, let people know. That's a big way to do that without having to worry about an app.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

If you're traveling, if you're on your phone and then you're at home or somewhere else and you have access to a computer, that's where you can find all of our shows, and that's something that, again, we should have probably talked about this earlier, not waited 300 episodes to get here.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

But this is something that we finally came around to, responding to some of that feedback of well, I don't, I don't want to use and I don't want to download another app or I don't know how to use it, because some of them are pretty tricky and trying to get the most recent episodes, sometimes you gotta scroll what it feels like forever to get to the newest episode and, and so it's kind of like man, how about you just go to VoicesForVoices. org forward slash podcast and right there at the top you have the most recent podcast episode that has dropped.

Voices for VoicesⓇ, Justin Alan Hayes:

So I invite you to, and encourage you to, check that out. Check that website. That's our website. It's a real website and you can catch all our episodes there, no app required, no money required, and we just want to say thank you for everything that you have done, helping us share hope, inspiration, to so many people. Thank you very much. We love you and I want to say God bless you, god bless everybody across the entire world, and especially God bless you if you're in Ukraine, and God bless you and God bless the United States of America. We'll see you next time. Thank you so much. Bye-bye for now.

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Justin Alan Hayes

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