Voices for Voices®

Beyond the Battlefield: PTSD Affects Us All | Ep 267

• Founder of Voices for Voices®, Justin Alan Hayes • Season 4 • Episode 267

Share episode

Beyond the Battlefield: PTSD Affects Us All | Ep 267

MERCHANDISE SHOP: voices-for-voices.org/3QnokLU
SUPPORT VOICES FOR VOICES®:
https://www.voicesforvoices.org/shop/p/supporter

We explore how PTSD affects people well beyond military service and why July 4th fireworks can be particularly challenging for trauma survivors. Justin shares his personal experiences with trauma triggers and mental health journey.

• Post-traumatic stress disorder doesn't only affect military personnel – trauma is trauma regardless of its source
• Fireworks during Independence Day celebrations can trigger traumatic memories through their loud, explosive sounds
• Justin recalls how missile interception sounds during his Ukraine visit became a source of trauma
• The importance of seeking professional help without shame or worry about others' judgments
• Breaking down the stigma of psychiatric care – going to therapy should be as normal as getting an oil change
• How building a support team of therapists, psychiatrists, and coping mechanisms creates resilience
• Justin's personal journey of seeking help, including his voluntary psychiatric admission in 2017
• Resources like the 988 crisis line are available for anyone struggling with mental health challenges

If you're experiencing trauma responses or need support, don't hesitate to reach out. You can call or text 988 or visit 988lifeline.org to chat with someone who can help. Remember: seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness.

Chapter Markers

0:00 Welcome to Episode 267

1:26 Understanding PTSD

4:54 History of Independence Day

9:42 Fireworks and Trauma Connection

14:42 Personal PTSD Experience in Ukraine

19:36 Seeking Help Without Shame

27:47 My Psychiatric Ward Journey

44:10 Final Thoughts and Independence Day Wishes

#PTSDawareness #MentalHealthMatters #BeyondTheBattlefield #TraumaSurvivor #VeteransSupport #HealingJourney #EmotionalWellbeing #MindfulnessInRecovery #CopingWithPTSD #SupportOurTroops #MentalHealthAdvocacy #ResilienceBuilding #PsychologicalFirstAid #CommunityHealing #AwarenessAndAction #TikTok #Instagram #VoicesforVoices #VoicesforVoicesPodcast #JustinAlanHayes #JustinHayes #help3billion

Support the show

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast. I'm your host. Founder of Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode. We are now at 267 episodes overall in studio out of studio episodes overall in studio out of studio Just incredible feat to hit as a milestone. Thank you for watching, for listening, for being supporters of Voices for Voices. No matter how small or how big, you can give us a big free thumbs up, subscribe, like, share, follow all those good things that are free, and we are a 501c3 nonprofit. If you are able to at any point, we would appreciate any and all donations. There's no donation too small, and you can find us on Venmo at Voices for Voices and you can also go to Voices for Voices dot O-R-G. Click on the link. Support our show and our organization and that will get you to where you need to be.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

Ptsd PTSD stands for Post-traumatic stress dysfunction and we're going to get into some of the specific post-traumatic stress disorder. There we go. Third time's the charm. So PTSD, ptsd I'll talk about what it is and how. It doesn't always have to relate to military service has tended to be in the past, the biggest contributor being in and around war. Loud sounds, fighter jets, ammunition shooting, missiles all these things seeing casualties, seeing people injured and gravely injured, and that can carry a heavy burden to any and all individuals that are involved, not just the military members themselves, but when they come home, the families, the friends. It all gets connected. So we're bringing PTSD up in this show because on this Friday, if I have my calendar correctly here so I'm just going to double check I believe it's Friday. So this Friday is what we call here in the United States the 4th of July, independence Day, and one of the big things that tends to get associated with Independence Day, the 4th of July, the 4th, are fireworks, and fireworks, by their very nature, while they are colorful, they let off a sound, and some of the sounds are really loud, some of them are really in succession that might sound like gunfire. Somebody was in the military or is in the military, and so they can bring back some of those, some of those memories that are embedded in our mind Before we get there.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

I want to just go into a little bit of a history lesson for me and for you about what is the Fourth of July, what is Independence Day First off. Here in the United States the 4th of July is a, and so I'm referring to Wikipedia. So there'll be times I'll be reading directly from there. I'm not claiming that this is my own information. A lot of it's coming from Wikipedia. When we get to the PTSD and that and kind of the second half of our show, that won't be Wikipedia, That'll be lived experience from me and others, lived experience for me and others.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

So the fourth is a federal holiday, which basically means that any organization you know court, the post office they observe that day as a holiday. And it was that day as a holiday and it was established in July 4th, 1776, which actually is when the United States of America was established. So let's get into some background. So Independence Day can be associated with fireworks, as I mentioned, parades, barbecues, cookouts, picnics, fairs, carnivals, baseball games, family reunions, political speeches, ceremonies and other various public and private events, and so we would get to a little bit closer to that PTSD. So we talk about the observance of the Fourth of July. So 1776 is when it started. In 1777, 13 gunshots were fired in salute, once that morning and once in the evening, as evening fell on July 4th in Bristol, rhode Island, and there's a similar celebration in Philadelphia 13 gun salutes, speeches, prayers, music, parades, troop reviews and fireworks. Ships were, if they weren't on a mission, they were at port and they're decked in red, white and blue. And 1781 is when the Massachusetts General Court became the first state legislature to recognize July 4th as a state celebration.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

And we talk about different customs of July 4th as a state celebration and we talk about different customs of July 4th. It's marked by patriotic displays. Again, federal courts, postal service, all non-essential federal institutions. It's a holiday, it's a federal holiday, it's a federal holiday, and so the legal holiday does remain on July 4th. But if that date right, we have seven days of the week, and if July 4th falls on a Saturday or Sunday, then the federal government, employees and organizations that observe the 4th will instead take the day off on the adjacent Friday or Monday. So if the 4th falls on Saturday, friday would be that day. If it falls on Sunday, then Monday would be that day, then Monday would be that day.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

You know, we as families, we often have celebrations, picnics, barbecues, long weekend of just hanging out and lots of parades. In many towns, many cities, the night before the 4th was once a point of celebrations marked by raucous gatherings, often incorporating bonfires as their highlight. Independence Day, the 4th of July, fireworks are often accompanied by patriotic songs, like our national anthem, the Star-Spangled Banner. God Bless America. America the Beautiful, my Country, tis of Thee, this Land is your Land, stars and Stripes Forever, yankee Doodle. God Bless the USA, among many, many others.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

Fireworks shows are held in many states. As far as celebrations, wherever you know, a city, a town you know would have a particular time to gather for those fireworks displays. But also fireworks are also sold for personal use or other than a public show, and so when we get to that point, right, so we're taking it down a level, and so there are safety concerns that come with that. It's led some states to ban fireworks outside of public shows or to limit the sizes and the types allowed, and so that's important. Some occasions, mostly close to the fourth, the public may be prohibited from purchasing or discharging fireworks, but again, the public displays, the professional displays, like those at sports events, may still take place.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

A salute of one gun for each state in the United States is called a salute to the Union, and it is fired on the 4th of July, independence Day at noon by any capable military base. If we talk about size of gatherings and firework displays public displays it appears that New York City has the largest fireworks display in the country and it's sponsored by Macy's, and this is just mind-blowing that with that, there are 22 tons that exploded, and this is in 2009. So we're what? 16 years removed from that. That number probably has grown. Generally, we're talking about this in New York, the largest display is generally held over the East River and it is Independence Day, which, july 4th, the first week of July, is one of typically the busiest United States travel periods, as many people use what we call, by having a federal holiday on Friday or Monday, a three-day holiday weekend for extended vacation trips. Getting that extra day can help with the travel, help with the travel, and it is it actually.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

The Philippines also celebrates July 4th as its Republic Day to commemorate the day in 1946 when it ceased to be a US territory and the United States officially recognized Philippine independence. And July 4th was intentionally chosen by the United States because it corresponds to its Independence Day, and so this day was observed in the Philippines as Independence Day, and so this day was observed in the Philippines as Independence Day until 1962. And then, in 1964, the name of July 4th. The July 4th holiday was changed to Republic Day. Rebuild National Park in Denmark is said to hold the largest July 4th celebrations outside of the United States.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

It's a little bit of history to talk about Independence Day, july 4th, and so we transition into PTSD, into PTSD. And PTSD again doesn't only happen to, cannot only happen to service members of the military past, present and future that enter, but it can happen, being the trauma which is post-traumatic stress disorder. It can happen for various reasons. Maybe we trip and fall and we'll get bad cuts on our arms and our legs, and maybe we have to go to the hospital and get treated and maybe that's a point of trauma. Well, yeah, that's not being at war, hearing that you know gunfire and that. But in our mind, our mind, our mind doesn, our mind, our mind doesn't, as I put this way, as strong as our mind is, our mind is not able to disassociate one point of trauma with another.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

All trauma goes together, just like stress, bad stress or negative stress, or good stress of wow, I'm going to start a new job and I'm going to get paid extra and then get a bonus and go on family vacations or go into the zoo, whatever that may be, stress is stress in our body. On family vacations or going to the zoo, whatever that may be, stress is stress in our body and trauma is trauma. There's different types of trauma and so, with the Fourth of July coming up and we talk about fireworks being one of the big things that's associated with the Fourth of July. Public shows, you know, usually are much larger, the show lasts much longer, gunfire and the like, which can take our minds back to a point in time when we may have heard that and we don't have to just be in the military again. It could be somebody who unfortunately faced a crime and there were gunshots. Even they weren't gunshots, any sense of trauma. Trauma take the toll on our body. So fireworks is just a good way to, given where we're at in the year, is just a good way to transition and talk about PTSD. I have it from a lot of things and a lot of the things are things that I did myself and so that can happen, bringing things a little bit closer.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

One of our mission trips that we hold from time to time with Voices for Voices, we went to Ukraine a couple of years ago to be with the people who we were able to interview, a couple of folks, one in the legislature, ina Susan and we really appreciate her time and the work that she does in the Ukrainian parliament and so we were able to sit down at a coffee shop and talk. That episode is within our 267 episode catalog library. You scroll through on your favorite platform and watch or listen to that episode. It was very moving, very powerful. I was very nervous, I was on edge, and that was because, at that point in time, russia had a continuous barrage of firing missiles many of them and drone attacks during the evening hours, when, when that's usually resting time.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

And I can remember one distinct example, and that is actually my last night that I was there in Kiev and there was a missile that was shot into Ukraine and it was intercepted, thank goodness, but the sound was like one of the loudest sounds I've ever heard. It sounded like gunfire on a, on a level of a hundred times what that sound like. And so that was a point of it woke me up in the middle of the night and not in a dead sleep like that. But you know, I was, I was out, I was sleeping and it takes a lot to wake me up. That just has any money in my family. I like my sleep, I love my sleep, I love my rest. Um, and instead of wake me up, it takes quite a feat to do that. And and so when I heard that, I was like, oh my gosh, is where I'm staying. Was that hit? Is there somewhere nearby? Then come to find out that the missile was intercepted and so I'm not in the military. I was never in the military.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

My father, my grandfathers, both served in the military and we thank everybody past, present and if you go in in the future, thank you for your service to our country. And whatever country you're from, you're not from the United States. You know we value that as humans. And so at that time I took that sound and that experience and when I arrived back here at the United States and not just the public the 4th of July, because I went, I believe it was in June, I believe it was in late May. Early June is when I went. I believe it was in June, I believe it was in late May. Early June is when I went to Ukraine. So the 4th of July was right around the corner, and so it was very fresh in my mind. And so, yeah, there were public displays, public shows, and so we could hear at our house some, and so we could hear at our house some and I kind of, when I would hear the sounds and the explosions of the fireworks, the sounds that they make, I would jump in any war. I wasn't in the service.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

And then we have what I explain here towards the end of our little history lesson on Wikipedia about independence in the United States. And so we know right that sometimes the laws are followed, sometimes they're not, and even if they are, you know individual people in the neighborhood or nearby. You know they set off their fireworks that they bought, they purchased, and what ends up happening, at least is my experience. So we have July 4th this year in 2025, on a Friday. You know, this past Saturday and Sunday started to hear hear in there fireworks and sounds, and I know that you know once, once, once it gets dark a little bit later in the evening tonight and tomorrow and Wednesday and Thursday and obviously Friday, and then some public shows also go on Saturday and Sunday and some could go on other days as well. So I would say maybe you know, a two-week period where you know hearing the explosions, lord, right now that we don't have a conflict here on our soil, that other areas of the world that they do have, and I thank God for that. And so here's two weeks that I could be put off kilter a little bit and it's one of these things that it's not.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

It's not like it's hard to talk about, because when we share this type of information, if we have a counselor, a psychiatrist, like I do, I share and talk about things like this To somebody that may not have those experiences, it doesn't necessarily mean they don't understand per se, necessarily mean they don't understand per se. It just means that a little more understanding of like, okay, if my family member, my significant other, if some bother my significant other, if you know sounds, you know like, bother, bother the individual, then we just need to respect that and be okay with it. It doesn't mean we don't want to spend time with family and that, but there's a lot of times where I don't. When it comes to fireworks and that, where I enjoy seeing them, I enjoy, I'm blessed to be able to have my eyesight and I love seeing the colors and the different patterns, but the sounds make again make me more alert, and it kind of takes me back to that time when I was in Ukraine.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

But then also there's other points of trauma in my life that you know. A lot of them I've talked about here on our show from time to time, and you may have trauma as well, and it doesn't make us any less of a person. It doesn't mean that we have anything wrong with us. All it means is we're affected in different ways than some others and some of the other people. There may be other things that bother them and cause them additional stress and additional anxiety that aren't related like that. So I wanted to talk about PTSD post-traumatic stress disorder. We've talked about it a little bit before on different shows, about a little bit before on different shows.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

But because we are in the week of Independence Day, the 4th of July, we're with you. We remain with you. If fireworks and sound transport you back to another point in time, it's okay. It's okay. We can talk to people, we can talk to professionals. I'm going to plug going and visiting a therapist or psychiatrist. We're so past the point of having that bother us and to feel like others are judging us. Maybe they are.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

So what Therapy helps me get through a lot of life. Maybe you have to take medication, like I do. There's nothing wrong with that and don't let anybody tell you that there's anything wrong with that, because there's not Because you are standing up for yourself. You're standing up for your health, your mental health, your physical health, and so if somebody goes and gets blood drawn to have different tests run, that person is going to a doctor to have a test done. That's no different than going to a psychiatrist or a therapist and having a visit, or many visits like me since 2017 that I've lost count. But it's one of those things that, no matter where I am in life, no matter how, maybe I'm going through a good spell where things aren't as stressful and aren't affecting me as much, and then there's times when I'm ultra stressed, and so I'm able to reach out to my therapist, my psychiatrist, to be able to talk through what's happening. Yeah, we can have standing appointments where every three weeks or every four weeks or every week or every other month, we might have an in-person, or a other month we might have an in-person or a Zoom meeting. But life doesn't only just happen on those days and times. Life happens 24-7. The clock keeps ticking, tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock, and there's going to be things that we're going to be able to handle better than others, and all we're doing is asking for a little bit of help.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

When my car needs an oil change, I go get the oil change. I don't go. Oh my gosh, what am I going to do? What's somebody going to think? And I just go get the oil change? I don't go. Oh my God, what am I going to do? What's somebody going to think? Let's go get my oil change? Somebody wants to judge that. Okay, they can do that. Same thing with the mental health. Somebody might judge me Okay, but I need to do what I need to do and I need to give myself self-care, self-love, because I'm not able to give anything if my cup isn't even a drop or two full.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

That's not just a cliche, it's the real deal. We can't do things, we can't spend time in groups and with loud music or fireworks. We can't do that if we don't take care of ourselves. And for that person that goes and gets a blood draw, check for cholesterol or what have you, that person's no different than me or you, where we say you know what, I'll get checked out and be okay with it, not worry what the result is, not worry about people say I've been there, done that, I've gone through those phases and they're hard right. You're trying to in a way, hide the fact that you know you have a therapy appointment or a psychiatrist appointment or they're taking medication and then all those things. Then they're done that.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

Is it uncomfortable at first? Yeah, a little bit. The other first time I was in a club where I, in my earlier years I would be consuming a lot of alcohol, and so that first time I was in an environment like that, with the loud music and the drink flowing, I very easily could have fell off the wagon and started drinking and I'm like, well, I'm just going to have one. But that's not how my mind works, that's not how all Justin works, and I had to learn that. It took a lot of time. But once I got through that that time, then it made the second time and the third time and the fourth time, et cetera made it much easier. So I was like what are you drinking? I'm drinking water, I'm drinking club soda or sparkling water, and be okay with that.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

Yeah, nobody going to love you, if you don't have that love for yourself and you may think it's cliche or what it's the truth, just like everything else that we talk about that if we don't believe in what we're doing, if we don't believe in the mission, the vision, if we don't, how are we going to lead and rally people together to join us together as one, one human being family with voices for voices? And so that's why I'm passionate. One of the big reasons I'm passionate Because I believe in myself. Yes, there's days where I don't, and they're hard and I don't want to do anything and I question are we making a difference? Are we really helping people? And you know, look at some, you know analytics and just go oh, justin, you know, here's where we're at. And so, yeah, I have a lot of down days and it takes a heck of a lot to get out of those days and it takes a heck of a lot to get out of those. But by having a team, having a therapist, having a psychiatrist, being able to cope as much as I can with strategies I've learned through therapy over the years, I'm able to cope much better, much safer than if her then I didn't have that team together.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

And I'll talk about the sport of baseball. Right, you have the pitcher, and it was just the pitcher pitching to a batter. It was just the pitcher pitching to a batter. It'd be hard to field and catch the ball and run to the different bases to record an out, get three outs so you can come to bat. And so I picture the team behind him or her, and so I picture as a team behind them or her catcher first base, second base, shortstop, third base, left field, center field, right field coaches, pinch hitters, defensive specialists. And so have that team, your experience in PTSD, defensive specialists. And so have that team, your experience in PTSD, whether that's related to military service or whether it's not, whether it's a relationship.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

We've had a hard time getting over and we just need somebody to talk to. We all, majority of us have these phones that we text, we call, we email, we instant message. We do all these things, we do all this communication, and some of that can be detrimental. So why not have outlets that you can reach out to, and I can reach out to, and this isn't me just preaching of? Well, you should do this. I'm living it. I'm living what I'm saying. I'm on medication. Do I want to be? No, do I wish I could go back to that lifestyle partying and that some days? Yeah, but I'm content. Do I wish I didn't have to go to a psychiatrist or therapist at this point? No, because I know I need them so much.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

At the beginning, at my bottom, at my lowest, yeah, I was like I don't even talk to these people. If people don't know me, they can't help me. I can help myself, I can. You know, I can do a search online on my phone. I can. Whatever I, I can do all that and while there's things that we can do to have a little bit of reassurance isn't a bad thing, yeah, you're on the right track. Or maybe you should think about this or that. Again, we're just accumulating information and at the time we need to, we make the best decision we can at that time. Autism, whatever that, whatever those challenges are, those disabilities are if you're given the opportunity, take it Because, like me, I was given an opportunity. No, I was given two choices.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

After multiple emergency room visits in November 2017, I was given two choices. One was continue on living in fear and panic and not sure if I would still be here once I left the hospital or do what I didn't want to do. I didn't want to be admitted to a psych ward. I didn't want to do. I didn't want to be admitted to a psych ward. I didn't want to be a person that some people call, oh you're going to the nut house, and all these things.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

At that moment, it didn't matter what all those people thought, it mattered what I thought and what I needed. And I took it upon myself finally, finally, to ask for help, that I couldn't do everything myself. And that's what it is. And like that, medically I don't have that background, I don't.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

And so when I was given that opportunity, after all those visits, all those days, all those months crying and being in fear and feel like I'm blacking out and feel like I'm allergic to eating everything except carrot sticks and plain hummus, that just that weight, those weights were just taking me to the ground. I couldn't carry them anymore. I couldn't carry them on my own. I wanted to, I tried to, but I couldn't. And so that's when I made a hard decision I admitted myself voluntarily, and while it was one of the lowest days of my life, it was one of the best days of my life, because I started to learn that I needed help and that I didn't care what other people thought, I didn't care what other names or judgments people would make against me, towards me, to my face or behind my back, and so that's a huge reason why I'm here today because of God and because of these medical folks, that I finally made a decision that Justin can't, I can't, fix everything, nobody can.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

So don't be a stranger, don't, don't get caught up in social media and labels and all that. All that stuff's going to be there and, plus, it's not going anywhere. But we might be going somewhere, not in a good way. So I just ask I've given that opportunity. You don't have to keep putting ourselves on these pedestals and feel like we're unshakable. We can ask for help, because if I wasn't here, if I'm not here today, then I'm not able to help anybody. Then I'm not able to help anybody, and not only help somebody like yourselves or other viewers and listeners, but I'm actually helping myself too, because I'm able to share and talk through things. Some things get repeated over and over again. It's what, at the moment, I feel I need to talk about and what I need to share about, and I have that avenue and I also have the therapist and the psychiatrist and the medication and the medication and different coping mechanisms. I have that. I'm lucky. I think I'm lucky because these resources are there for everybody 988 hotline call text head over to 988 lifelineorg. They can chat.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

If you're in a crisis, you know somebody. That is that's why we end our shows most of the times when I remember asking you to be a voice for you. There's somebody in need. There may be somebody in need and we don't need to share names, we don't need to share all that, but there might just be somebody that could use a lending ear, say, yeah, I understand as much as I can, and so that's why I say here's what I'm doing, here's how I'm managing my mental health. Managing my mental health.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

It might resonate with you, it might not, but I know it's resonated with at least one person. There's probably a whole lot more that I don't know about and I'm okay with that. I just want to be a light where there is none, or the light is just barely flickering, or the light needs, the light bulb needs changed out. That's a Voices, for Voices is about it's being a light, it's helping, it's being transparent. It's talking about real issues, real topics that not a lot of people want to talk about, and I'm okay with that. But that's the only way I know how to help. That's the only way I know how to share and alert people, the general public and, depending on what the topic is and I know there's a lot of people hurting out there I'm one of those but just know that you are not alone. There is help. There are people that genuinely care.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

If you've had a bad experience with a therapist, talk to another one. If you have a bad experience, talk to another one. Find one that clicks with you, that understands you. Find one that clicks with you, that understands you. Don't give up on yourself. We're mighty, we're strong, we're loved. I love you, I love you, I love myself, and you can love yourself too. So I want to wish everybody here in the United States a safe, happy 4th of July, independence Day.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

And if the sounds of fireworks explosions bother you, find a way to. Maybe it's listening to music, maybe it's watching a movie, I don't know. But don't be afraid. Don't feel like you're alone. Don't feel like nobody understands you, because guess who's been there? This person right here that's talking. Nobody understands you Because guess who's been there, this person right here. It's talking, and I had to give up my ego, my pride, before I could ever get to this point to be sharing as much as I do and as much as we do and to talk about as the topics we talk about, because I like to think of it.

Voices for Voices, Justin Alan Hayes:

If I don't talk about it and nobody else is talking about it, then there's a lot of people that we're letting down and I'm letting down and I want to help. I want to help those 3 billion people over the course of my lifetime and beyond, and the only way to do that is to do it. That takes exposing some nefarious activity, putting people in danger, or just saying you're not alone, I'm not alone, none of us are alone. Care less about what others think and care more about what you think. So thank you so much for tuning into this episode. We're grateful, we're humbled to have this be episode number 267. Have a great day, have a great evening. We value you, we believe in you, we love you and we are not alone Not a one of us. So we'll see you on the next show. Bye for now.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Justin Alan Hayes

Host